03/28/2008 01:30 PM Senate JUDICIARY
| Audio | Topic |
|---|---|
| Start | |
| SB183 | |
| HB149 | |
| HB286 | |
| Adjourn |
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
| + | HB 149 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | HB 286 | TELECONFERENCED | |
| + | TELECONFERENCED | ||
| = | SB 183 | ||
ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE
SENATE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
March 28, 2008
1:36 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Senator Hollis French, Chair
Senator Charlie Huggins, Vice Chair
Senator Lesil McGuire
Senator Bill Wielechowski
Senator Gene Therriault
MEMBERS ABSENT
All members present
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SENATE BILL NO. 183
"An Act repealing the defined contribution retirement plans for
teachers and for public employees; making conforming amendments;
and providing for an effective date."
MOVED CSSB 183(JUD) OUT OF COMMITTEE
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 149(RES)
"An Act relating to the authority of the Department of
Environmental Conservation to require certain monitoring,
sampling, and reporting and to require permits for certain
discharges of pollutants; relating to criminal penalties for
violations of the permit program; and providing for an effective
date."
MOVED CSHB 149(RES) OUT OF COMMITTEE
HOUSE BILL NO. 286
"An Act relating to impersonating a public servant."
HEARD AND HELD
PREVIOUS COMMITTEE ACTION
BILL: SB 183
SHORT TITLE: REPEAL DEFINED CONTRIB RETIREMENT PLANS
SPONSOR(s): SENATOR(s) ELTON
05/16/07 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
05/16/07 (S) L&C, STA, JUD, FIN
01/29/08 (S) L&C AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211
01/29/08 (S) Heard & Held
01/29/08 (S) MINUTE(L&C)
02/14/08 (S) L&C AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211
02/14/08 (S) Moved SB 183 Out of Committee
02/14/08 (S) MINUTE(L&C)
02/15/08 (S) L&C RPT 2DP 1DNP 1NR
02/15/08 (S) DP: ELLIS, DAVIS
02/15/08 (S) DNP: BUNDE
02/15/08 (S) NR: HOFFMAN
03/18/08 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211
03/18/08 (S) Heard & Held
03/18/08 (S) MINUTE(STA)
03/19/08 (S) STA RPT 2DP 2DNP 1NR
03/19/08 (S) DP: MCGUIRE, FRENCH
03/19/08 (S) DNP: GREEN, BUNDE
03/19/08 (S) NR: STEVENS
03/19/08 (S) STA AT 9:30 AM BELTZ 211
03/19/08 (S) -- Continued from 03/18/08 --
03/26/08 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211
03/26/08 (S) Heard & Held
03/26/08 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
03/28/08 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211
BILL: HB 149
SHORT TITLE: POLLUTANT DISCHARGE PERMITS
SPONSOR(S): RULES BY REQUEST OF THE GOVERNOR
02/21/07 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/21/07 (H) RES, JUD
03/12/07 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
03/12/07 (H) Heard & Held
03/12/07 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/19/07 (H) RES AT 1:00 PM BARNES 124
03/19/07 (H) Moved CSHB 149(RES) Out of Committee
03/19/07 (H) MINUTE(RES)
03/21/07 (H) RES RPT CS(RES) 4DP 1DNP 4NR
03/21/07 (H) DP: WILSON, ROSES, JOHNSON, GATTO
03/21/07 (H) DNP: SEATON
03/21/07 (H) NR: KAWASAKI, GUTTENBERG, EDGMON,
KOHRING
04/11/07 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
04/11/07 (H) Moved CSHB 149(RES) Out of Committee
04/11/07 (H) MINUTE(JUD)
04/13/07 (H) JUD RPT CS(RES) 3DP 3NR
04/13/07 (H) DP: GRUENBERG, LYNN, RAMRAS
04/13/07 (H) NR: SAMUELS, HOLMES, COGHILL
04/20/07 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
04/20/07 (H) VERSION: CSHB 149(RES)
04/23/07 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
04/23/07 (S) JUD
01/23/08 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211
01/23/08 (S) -- MEETING CANCELED --
01/25/08 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211
01/25/08 (S) Heard & Held
01/25/08 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
03/28/08 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211
BILL: HB 286
SHORT TITLE: IMPERSONATING A PUBLIC SERVANT
SPONSOR(S): REPRESENTATIVE(S) DAHLSTROM
01/04/08 (H) PREFILE RELEASED 1/4/08
01/15/08 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
01/15/08 (H) JUD
02/01/08 (H) JUD AT 1:00 PM CAPITOL 120
02/01/08 (H) Moved Out of Committee
02/01/08 (H) MINUTE(JUD)
02/04/08 (H) JUD RPT 3DP 1NR 1AM
02/04/08 (H) DP: SAMUELS, DAHLSTROM, RAMRAS
02/04/08 (H) NR: COGHILL
02/04/08 (H) AM: HOLMES
02/11/08 (H) TRANSMITTED TO (S)
02/11/08 (H) VERSION: HB 286
02/13/08 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRALS
02/13/08 (S) STA, JUD
03/13/08 (S) STA AT 9:00 AM BELTZ 211
03/13/08 (S) Moved HB 286 Out of Committee
03/13/08 (S) MINUTE(STA)
03/14/08 (S) STA RPT 1DP 2NR
03/14/08 (S) DP: MCGUIRE
03/14/08 (S) NR: STEVENS, FRENCH
03/28/08 (S) JUD AT 1:30 PM BELTZ 211
WITNESS REGISTER
RON WOLFE, Natural Resource Manager
Sealaska Corporation
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 149.
Kathie Wasserman, Executive Director
Alaska Municipal League (AML)
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 149.
VANESSA SALINAS, Campaign Director
Alaskans for Responsible Mining
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in opposition to HB 149.
JASON BRUNE, Executive Director
Resource Development Council (RDC)
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 149.
BOB SHAVELSON, Executive Director
Cook Inlet Keeper
Homer, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Pointed out problems associated with HB
149.
EARL HUBBARD, Vice President
Regulatory Affairs
Trident Seafoods
Seattle, WA
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 149.
NIKOS PASTOS, Environmental Coordinator
Alaska Inter-Tribal Council
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Testified on HB 149 to oppose NPDES primacy
until the state demonstrates tribal consultation.
CARL WASSILIE, Yupik Alaskan
Alaska Action Center
No address provided
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in opposition to HB 149.
LARRY HARTIG, Commissioner
Department of Environmental Conservation
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Responded to questions related to HB 149.
LYNN TOMICH KENT, Director
Division of Water
Department of Environmental Conservation
Anchorage, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Responded to questions related to HB 149.
JENNIFER BAXTER, Staff
to Representative Nancy Dahlstrom
Alaska State Capitol
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Introduced HB 286 on behalf of the sponsor.
JEFF LANDVATTER
Alaska State Trooper and member of PSEA
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of H 286.
CHRIS GIFFORD, Police Officer
Member, Juneau Police Department Employees Association (JPDEA)
and Public Safety Employees Association (PSEA)
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Spoke in support of HB 286.
BARRY SCHIMMACK
Representing Himself
Chugiak, AK
said he is a concerned citizen in support of HB 286.
POSITION STATEMENT:
JERRY LUCKHAUPT, Counsel
Legislative Legal and Research Services Division
Juneau, AK
POSITION STATEMENT: Responded to questions related to HB 286.
ACTION NARRATIVE
CHAIR HOLLIS FRENCH called the Senate Judiciary Standing
Committee meeting to order at 1:36:17 PM. Present at the call to
order were Senators Wielechowski, Therriault, McGuire, Huggins,
and French.
SB 183-REPEAL DEFINED CONTRIB RETIREMENT PLANS
1:36:17 PM
CHAIR FRENCH announced the consideration of SB 183 and asked for
a motion to adopt Version \L committee substitute.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI moved to adopt the committee substitute
(CS) to SB 183, 25-LS0566\L, Wayne, as the working document.
CHAIR FRENCH announced that without objection, Version \L is
before the committee. He said that considerable public testimony
has been taken on this controversial bill. It reverts the state
retirement system back to the defined benefit plan that the
state embraced for nearly 50 years. Under SB 141 the state moved
away from that policy in 2005.
SENATOR MCGUIRE motioned to report the CS for SB 183, from
committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal
note(s).
CHAIR FRENCH announced that without objection, CSSB 183(JUD),
25-LS0566\L, is moved from the Senate Judiciary Committee.
The committee took an at-ease from 1:40:18 PM to 1:40:29 PM.
HB 149-POLLUTANT DISCHARGE PERMITS
CHAIR FRENCH announced the consideration of HB 149. Before the
committee was CSHB 149(RES). The bill was heard previously.
1:41:05 PM
RON WOLFE, Natural Resource Manager for Sealaska Corporation,
said that Sealaska has significant interest in 22 log transfer
facilities (LTF) in Southeast Alaska, all of which are covered
by a general National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System
(NPDES) permit. For years Sealaska has supported state
assumption of the NPDES program just as 45 other states have
done.
The three issues regarding NPDES primacy are whether the Alaska
Department of Environmental Conservation (DEC) may be a less
trustworthy steward of Alaska's waters than the Environmental
Protection Agency (EPA); whether DEC personnel have the
qualifications to administer the program; and Sealaska's comfort
level as a federally-recognized Indian tribe regarding the
degree of consultation it will receive if DEC assumes primary
for the NPDES program.
To illustrate the DEC commitment to protecting water quality he
compared provisions of the LTF permits that were inserted by EPA
and those that were imposed by DEC. The permits are intended to
limit bark on the ocean floor as logs are transferred for
shipment by sea. EPA permit conditions are the typical
operational restrictions found in any NPDES permit, while DEC
created a plan process that forces operators to begin
remediation of bark accumulation at very low thresholds.
1:43:52 PM
MR. WOLFE said DEC personnel are qualified to regulate LTF
operations because of their on-the-ground knowledge. DEC
regulators have made a great effort to visit the LTFs, examine
the operations, and carefully review water quality around the
facilities. In contrast, gaining field experience with Alaska
LTFs has never been an EPA priority. That's understandable given
the significant water quality issues in this region. When
Sealaska's LTF permits were renewed, EPA contracted with DEC to
draft the permits.
1:45:38 PM
Finally, although Sealaska has always had the opportunity to
comment on EPA proposals, that federal agency has never sought
tribal consultation. In contrast, DEC has always sought Sealaska
views on policy initiatives affecting Southeast Alaska at the
earliest stages of those proposals. Oftentimes Sealaska's views
have not prevailed, but it has always felt that DEC was very
mindful of the need to bring affected tribes into the policy
development process. DEC has not relegated Sealaska to the role
of reacting to policy decisions through general public comments.
1:46:31 PM
KATHIE WASSERMAN, Executive Director, Alaska Municipal League
(AML), said the AML has submitted written testimony supporting
HB 149. She explained that when she became the mayor of Pelican
she learned that their NPDES permit had expired six years ago,
but the EPA had never contacted the city. When she contacted EPA
it became clear that they knew nothing about small remote Alaska
communities. DEC helped Pelican get the permit back on track. As
she said in her letter, there are some concerns with DEC, but at
least it has a process and everyone knows who to call and talk
to. AML is in favor of primacy going to the State of Alaska, she
said.
1:49:02 PM
VANESSA SALINAS, Campaign Director, Alaskans for Responsible
Mining, said giving the state primacy sounds like a good idea
because permitting responsibilities should be close to the
projects, but she questions the feasibility of such a move when
DEC is so woefully under staffed. The fiscal note attached to SB
110 that mandated this move back in 2005 required more than $1.5
million in general funds revenue each year. Industry fees are
capped at 16 percent and she wonders where the funds will come
from to fund this initiative.
According to a program coordinator with DEC, just 7 of the 17
environmental health officers that have been hired in the last
seven years are still employed and five have been with the
agency for six months or less. The additional long-term
employees may retire in the next 5 years. Clearly, DEC is
experiencing a staffing shortage and there is no solution in
sight. State salaries are down and the benefit package for new
hires has been severely cut. Until new hires can be offered a
competitive employment package, qualified candidates won't be
knocking at agency doors. The division of geological and
geophysical survey director has stated that the increased
mineral activity this year will test that section. According to
a DNR career development coordinator, state government is
looking at a 45 percent retirement rate through 2011.
Another area of concern is tribal sovereignty. EPA has the legal
obligation to formally consult with Alaska Native tribes on a
government-to-government basis on all permits. Under the
proposed Alaska program, tribes will lose sovereign authority
because the state doesn't formally recognize tribes.
1:51:46 PM
MS. SALINAS said that DEC is only committed to making reasonable
efforts to inform and seek participation of local and federally
recognized tribes. She urged the committee to halt the transfer
of the NPDES permit authority until funds are allocated for
adequate departmental staffing, and tribal trust obligations of
government-to-government relations are addressed in a manner
that is acceptable to tribes.
1:52:24 PM
JASON BRUNE, Executive Director, Resource Development Council
(RDC), said RDC's diverse membership of includes: oil and gas,
tourism, fisheries, mining, timber, construction, labor
organizations, all of the regional Native corporations, local
communities, and a variety of industry support firms. He
characterized HB 149 as a cleanup bill that relates to what the
legislature charged DEC to do in 2005 under SB 110; these
provisions are required by EPA for Alaska to assume primacy over
NPDES. Currently only five states do not have primacy. For a
state to obtain primacy its requirements must be at least as
strong as the EPA requirements, and HB 149 makes the changes to
ensure that Alaska statutes achieve this. It goes without saying
that Alaskans have a strong interest in ensuring that things are
done right in their state so NPDES primacy for Alaska is a no-
brainer. He urged the committee to move HB 149 so that the final
steps toward assuming this program can be completed.
1:54:52 PM
BOB SHAVELSON, Executive Director, Cook Inlet Keeper, said the
organization has worked on water quality and fish habitat
protection for about 13 years. There are a lot of good arguments
for getting primacy, but the bill that passed under the
Murkowski Administration has a number of flaws, principally the
workgroup that set up the process was dominated by industry
dischargers. There was a municipal seat for wastewater
dischargers, but the public was not part of the process, so it
was a lopsided prospect. The notion of states rights arises
because that workgroup recommended not allowing the state to
have more strict laws than the federal government. That denies
the fact that Alaska has the best fish management program in the
country and it ties Alaska's hands. "If we're concerned about
states rights we should recognize that there's a provision in
there that undermines those rights," he said.
MR. SHAVELSON pointed out that the bill caps fees for industry
so the general fund and the public will pick up any cost
overruns from the very low $1.5 million fiscal note attached to
SB 110. By comparison industry pays 57 percent of the fees in
Oregon, 75 percent in Washington, and 100 percent in Montana.
Alaska will be providing a public subsidy. Looking at
streamlining is good, but when it goes too far, permit quality
is diminished. As currently proposed the permitting staff is
reduced by 28 percent, and the compliance and enforcement staff
is reduced by 16 percent, so DEC would be trying to do the same
amount of work that EPA has done with less staff. RDC fears that
will result in rollbacks to protection of fish and water
quality.
Referring to comments Mr. Wolfe made about tribal sovereignty,
he said that RDC understands that the executive order was meant
to cover federally recognized sovereign tribes, not
corporations. In working with tribes in Cook Inlet he found that
EPA has been very good in the government-to-government
consultation required by that executive order. DEC has made a
good effort, but there is no legal recognition of tribes at the
state level. That is reflected in this final plan and there is
considerable loss of tribal sovereignty. He suggested that there
is a need for a third-party review to understand the fiscal and
substantive impacts. The system in place works and it would be a
good idea to look carefully and get an objective opinion on what
this change will mean.
1:58:28 PM
CHAIR FRENCH asked who would conduct the third-party review.
MR. SHAVELSON suggested a broad-based commission that includes:
industry, tribes, fishing, conservation, and the public.
EARL HUBBARD, Vice President of Regulatory Affairs, Trident
Seafoods, said the more Trident tunes in to the advantages of
primacy, the more it looks at it as a problem solver. He
explained that to process seafood in Alaska a company needs a
general or individual federal NPDES discharge permit. A problem
with EPA is that resources to reissue or write new permits are
severely limited. In fact, every single general permit that EPA
has issued has expired. A new discharger wishing to get into the
fish processing business could not do so legally because EPA
does not have the resources to write a new permit. That is a
difficulty when you look at the considerable contribution that
seafood processing makes to the economy of Alaska, he said. It
most definitely is not possible to have allowed every NPDES
discharge permit in the state to expire and at the same time to
argue that EPA has adequate resources to cover its
responsibilities.
2:03:05 PM
MR. HUBBARD said that the alternative to a general permit is an
individual permit and for those there's a 3-5 year waiting list.
Consider, he said, that every general permit has expired and
there is no opportunity to discharge legally for 3-5 years for
any newcomer to the industry. The impact to coastal and rural
communities in Alaska is stunning. EPA does offer enforcement
discretion in the absence of an authority, but enforcement
discretion isn't needed unless you're breaking the law. In these
litigious times nobody wants to rely on that. These are good
people, but there aren't enough of them.
MR. HUBBARD acknowledged that there have been issues with DEC,
but that agency does respond and listen to find ways that are
legal and appropriate. Primacy is an opportunity with good
timing because the components are in place, he said. You have
DEC professionalism, the tools, and an application that's ready
to go. EPA is probably thankful that Alaska can do this so it
can focus on the three other Region 10 states.
2:07:04 PM
NIKOS PASTOS, Environmental Coordinator, Alaska Inter-Tribal
Council, said he's also treasurer of a non-profit called The
Center for Water Advocacy. He read a resolution opposing NPDES
primacy until the State of Alaska demonstrates tribal
consultation. It resolves that transferring NPDES primacy to the
state is an act of cultural destruction in violation of federal
statutory and trust obligation. Until the state has demonstrated
a record of government-to-government consultation with tribal
governments. All the tribes that have been consulted are opposed
to the state taking primacy. It would be a mistake to say that
the state would manage discharge permits as well as EPA. The
federal government is obligated to include tribes and the state
hasn't even recognized the legitimacy of long-standing tribal
governments that existed before the United States became a
country.
2:11:13 PM
MR. PASTOS said there is a consensus among tribes that water is
sacred; it's vital to the well being of the people and their
traditional food. He doesn't understand why foreign corporations
have more priority than people who have lived in Alaska since
time immemorial. There are flaws in the way the permitting
process would be streamlined for large mining industry, foreign
fishing fleets, and outside timber interests. The Alaska Inter-
Tribal Council is opposed to HB 149 and to the state taking
primacy.
2:12:43 PM
CHAIR FRENCH asked for a copy of the resolution to make it part
of the record.
CARL WASSILIE, Yupik Alaskan and member of Resisting
Environmental Destruction on Indigenous Lands (REDOIL), said he
is speaking on behalf of Alaska Action Center (AAC). AAC
supports communities that are impacted by outside interests that
threaten the well-being and health of future generations. REDOIL
is a group of Alaska Natives that addresses human and
environmental impacts of the fossil fuel industry in Alaska, and
supports sustainable development on indigenous lands. He
supports tribal self-determination and the recognition that the
state has failed to recognize the tribes of Alaska. That needs
to be addressed before the issues about the permitting system ,
he said. The relationship between the state and the tribes and
the communities in Alaska need to be well defined and
established.
MR. WASSILIE said he and REDOIL are opposed to HB 149. It'
important to know the history of the Clean Water Act to
understand its relation with human health impacts. The fact that
that has been forgotten can be seen in Cook Inlet in the
streamlined process of waiving permits for more pollution. These
issues need to be addressed before permitting is turned over to
the state, he said. At this time the state doesn't have the
personnel capacity or the relationship with communities to
recognize tribes even though most industry is operating in or
around tribal waters.
2:17:00 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked DEC to respond to the testimony on
the loss of tribal sovereignty, government-to-government
interaction, and whether DEC has a plan to consult sovereign
tribes as EPA does now.
2:18:31 PM
LARRY HARTIG, Commissioner, Alaska Department of Environmental
Conservation, explained that tribal consultation does not go
away with state primacy. EPA still has its government-to-
government obligations to the tribe and its oversight of all
permits that DEC would issue. Tribes would not have direct
consultation with DEC, but they could consult with EPA and have
all the rights they have now. If EPA thought that DEC wasn't
listening to the tribe it would say so. The other point is that
DEC is making a concerted effort to have in place an equivalent
government-to-government consultation for the APDES program. DEC
developed a guidance document to get tribes interested and is
sending copies to tribes that have expressed a concern. The
document is still in draft form and comments are being
accepting. That will be part of the application package to EPA,
which is scheduled to be presented on May 1. As part of the
application package, it will become part of the program.
However, if better ways of doing the consultation are found that
could be modified. DEC is attuned to the issue and ready to
provide the functional equivalent of what tribes have now with
the federal government. Because the State of Alaska is not a
nation there can only be a state-to-tribe relationship, which by
its very nature will be different than the government-to-tribe
relationship. It will have to be different, but it doesn't mean
the DEC won't listen to their concerns.
2:21:21 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked about DEC recruitment and retention
and the statement that it may not be able handle the increased
workload associated with primacy.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said that Mr. Shavelson brought up good
points, but they also apply to federal and state agencies and
private industry. Everyone is faced with those demographics. It
comes down to whether the state will be a competitive employer.
He is a member of the Governor's task force on recruitment and
retention and she is acting on recommendations that have been
made, he said. DEC has an internal advisory group, and it has
also contracted for a private survey to improve recruitment and
retention. DEC probably compares with EPA or any other agency on
this issue, he said.
2:23:53 PM
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said the other point that Mr. Shavelson
raised about DEC having fewer people to work on primacy than EPA
doesn't take into account the current DEC permitting staff. His
recollection is that the combination of the current permitting
staff and the NPDES staff will be larger than the current EPA
permitting staff.
LYNN TOMICH KENT, Director, Division of Water, Department of
Environmental Conservation, explained that to implement NPDES
primacy DEC will have 43 positions dedicated to the program.
That includes compliance, permitting, record keeping, and data
management.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if 43 new positions will be created.
MS. KENT replied that includes existing staff and the 13
additional positions that were allotted under SB 110; 12 of
those positions have been filled.
2:25:35 PM
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked what percentage of the fees will be
paid by industry.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG explained that it varies among states, but
there is a misassumption here that only industry gets NPDES
permits. Everybody that has a discharge of pollutants to waters
of the United States needs a permit so , municipalities and
small villages would carry the ball too. Few states cover 100
percent of the program. In the last year or so the General
Accounting Office (GAO) tried to get EPA to require states to
fully fund NPDES programs by providing a disincentive for
federal grant dollars. There was pushback from the states and
GAO backed off. The states said they shouldn't be told how to
spend their general fund dollars. He believes Alaska's
percentage is about the same as other states, and the oil and
gas industry already supports a large portion of the program
through general fund contributions. He added that the fee
structure is up to the legislature and not DEC.
2:27:48 PM
CHAIR FRENCH clarified that he is commenting tangentially on Mr.
Shavelson's point that some states get from 57-100 percent of
their fees paid by industry, and he is saying that is something
the legislature has the authority to institute.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG replied that is up to the state. Currently
Alaska permittees pay 16 percent of the program fees and more
municipalities than industry folks have permits.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI recalled that there was a question about
DEC writing letters to EPA on behalf of industry dischargers,
and asked if DEC would continue that practice if the state
assumes primacy.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG replied it's not a policy.
SENATOR WIELECHOWSKI asked if DEC would do that anymore if this
bill is enacted.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said no.
2:29:09 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked if the dynamic before was that DEC was
encouraging the EPA to issue a permit. If the state assumes
primacy it would be the issuing entity so it wouldn't write a
letter to itself.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG explained that DEC will regulate by
following the law, the science, the facts, and good public
policy.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if DEC has contacted the Inter Tribal Council
to discuss sovereign-to-sovereign relations.
COMMISSIONER HARTIG said he welcomes that conversation; he has
an open door. "We're serious about wanting to have a good
relationship with the tribes." Good input is part of that and he
looks forward to any comments or discussion on the draft
guidance.
2:31:07 PM
SENATOR MCGUIRE motioned to report CSHB 149 from committee with
individual recommendations and attached fiscal note(s).
CHAIR FRENCH announced that without objection, CSHB 149(RES) is
moved from the Senate Judiciary Committee.
HB 286-IMPERSONATING A PUBLIC SERVANT
CHAIR FRENCH announced the consideration of HB 286.
JENNIFER BAXTER, Staff to Representative Nancy Dahlstrom, said
HB 286 makes it a class C felony for impersonating a public
servant in the first degree. A person commits this crime by
violating AS 11.56.830 by pretending to be a peace officer.
Currently it is a class B misdemeanor to impersonate any public
servant.
This bill targets those who intend to harm an individual or
group while appearing as a person whose job it is to protect
others and uphold the law. Class B misdemeanors usually bring
little or no jail time unless the person has a significant
criminal history. HB 286 will add teeth to existing law by
providing law enforcement agencies with another tool. The bill
serves as a strong deterrent for those who deliberately make
choices that put families, neighbors and communities at risk.
2:34:47 PM
JEFF LANDVATTER Alaska State Trooper and member of PSEA, said
being a police officer is about trust. Society places high value
on a police officer and you know you can trust them. So when
someone pretends to be a police officer it breaks that public
trust. What better way to strike terror in the community, he
said. The legislature needs to send a clear message that the
State of Alaska will not tolerate impersonating a police
officer.
2:36:36 PM
CHAIR FRENCH asked Trooper Landvatter if he has personal
experience with people who have impersonated a police officer.
TROOPER LANDVATTER described a situation in Juneau where a
person bought a surplus police car and set it up to look
authentic. He doesn't know if the person tried to impersonate an
officer, but he clearly tried to imitate a police car. He has
heard of other situations in Wasilla where someone actually
pulled someone over. In the lower 48 people have been raped and
murdered by someone impersonating a police officer and it's a
concern that it could happen in this state. This is a preemptive
law to protect Alaska, he said.
2:38:22 PM
CHAIR FRENCH asked if the bogus police car was actually operated
on the highway in Juneau.
TROOPER LANDVATTER replied that he saw it being driven, but he
doesn't know if the person tried to exercise authority to pull
someone over.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if he's ever come across a "cop wannabe."
TROOPER LANDVATTER said yes.
CHAIR FRENCH asked if that's part of the phenomenon here.
TROOPER LANDVATTER said to a certain extent that might be the
case. Becoming a trooper or police officer is a difficult
process and some people simply aren't able to attain that goal.
A certain number of those people end up hanging around police
officers and some become volunteers and ride with officers to
feel part of the action. Some also take it to the next step and
do something on their own.
2:39:43 PM
CHAIR FRENCH said that's an important line to cross and he's
been puzzling with that here because laying a felony crime on
someone is a very serious thing to do. If someone tries to
exercise the authority of being an officer he's willing to stop
the person with a harsh measure, but if someone does nothing
more than drive a car that looks like a police car, it may not
be right but he's not sure it's a felony. He said he's been
puzzling with how to suss out that difference and has an
amendment to offer.
TROOPER LANDVATTER pointed out that it's the same as a person
who puts on a uniform and walks down the street. He or she
hasn't taken any action, but people are drawn to the uniform or
the police car as a place of safety or a place to get help.
2:40:59 PM
SENATOR HUGGINS relayed a personal experience and asked if a kid
who speeds around in his dad's trooper vehicle with lights
flashing would violate this law.
TROOPER LANDVATTER responded that the kid would be using a
patrol car without authorization to drive too fast so other
elements of the law could be used in a prosecution. Pulling
someone over elevates the act to the next level of impersonating
an officer. Those are two different things.
2:42:05 PM
CHAIR MCGUIRE suggested that the underlying statute is poorly
written and perhaps it should be reviewed. For example, page 1,
line 6, talks about pretending to be a police officer, which
doesn't provide much detail and page 1, lines 10-12, talk about
any act related to pretending to be a public servant, which is
very broad.
She asked if undercover agents are used on his police force
because that could be a place for real mischief. Trooper
Landvatter replied in the affirmative. She then asked how often
citizen arrests occur and if this might be interpreted as
impersonating a police officer.
2:44:34 PM
TROOPER LANDVATTER replied those don't happen that often; most
of the time it's in a shoplifting situation.
SENATOR THERRIAULT commented that all the bills today have
strange ties. He highlighted an issue from several years ago
when the citizens of the sovereign nation of Chickaloon
purchased a vehicle and began pulling people over on the Glenn
Highway and issuing traffic tickets. He questioned whether that
act would be impersonating a police officer.
2:45:42 PM
TROOPER LANDVATTER clarified that he isn't an expert on this
law, but his opinion is that if they're operating under a
community or municipality then they have the authority to
enforce local ordinances.
2:46:45 PM
CHRIS GIFFORD, Vice President, Juneau Police Department
Employees Association (JPDEA) and member of the Public Safety
Employees Association (PSEA) stated support for HB 286 making it
a felony crime to impersonate a police officer. Everyday brave
men and women take an oath to protect and serve the state or
community they work for, he said. They are expected to enforce
laws, perform traffic stops, promote highway safety, fight the
war on drugs, investigate violent crimes and more. Every time
they contact someone they're entrusted with personal and
confidential information. From childhood people are taught to
trust police officers and go to them for help. That trust is an
awesome responsibility that should be protected with the utmost
care. When someone impersonates a police officer that trust is
broken and the potential for harm is great. Elevating this crime
to a more serious charge will possibly reduce the frequency of
this crime.
2:50:01 PM
BARRY SCHIMMACK said he is a concerned citizen from Chugiak who
supports HB 286. He noted that he submitted written testimony
and then relayed that in Colorado a bill was passed that has
specifics disallowing the display of police lights. He described
the brutal murder of his Colorado friend who was pulled over and
tricked into believing she was with a legitimate police officer.
In the Anchorage area there have been two instances of
impersonating an officer in the last two years and as the father
of three girls he is nervous about that sort of thing. Perhaps
the bill needs more teeth, but he supports it fully because he
doesn't want any Alaskan to meet the same fate as his friend.
Knowing that this now is a felony crime hopefully will have an
effect.
2:56:02 PM
CHAIR FRENCH moved Amendment 1, 25-LS1169\A.1, Luckhaupt, and
objected for discussion purposes.
AMENDMENT 1
OFFERED IN THE SENATE
TO: HB 286
Page 1, line 6, following "officer":
Insert "and purports to exercise the authority of
a peace officer in relation to another person"
CHAIR FRENCH explained that the idea is that you have to do some
act to exercise the authority of that badge, that car or those
lights to interrupt someone's life and get access to their
personal information. That steps over the line and indicates
that you're a bad actor.
2:57:55 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked if there's a reason for not adding this
to the other sections of statute.
CHAIR FRENCH said that's a good suggestion. Current law talks
about doing any act in that capacity and that is so broad that
it would encompass driving down the road in a police car or
walking around in a police uniform. But if the committee is
interested in having all aspects of impersonation, he wouldn't
object. He asked Mr. Luckhaupt why this idea shouldn't apply to
both the B misdemeanor and the C felony.
2:58:50 PM
JERRY LUCKHAUPT, Legislative Counsel, Legislative Legal and
Research Services Division, said you could apply any
requirements to this particular act. The existing statute talks
about pretending to be a public servant and doing some act in
that capacity. In his view just dressing up or driving a car
that used to be a police vehicle isn't enough. You'd have to
represent yourself as a police officer and pull someone over or
call them and get information about another person. Those are
examples of how these laws have been used in other states to
sustain prosecutions. There haven't been prosecutions of exotic
dancers, for example, who dress up like a cop because they
aren't performing an official act.
3:01:10 PM
SENATOR THERRIAULT observed that the amendment addresses the
problem of pretending to be a peace officer in Section 1, but it
doesn't address the problem of impersonating a public servant in
Section 2. He suggested the committee consider tightening that
section as well.
CHAIR FRENCH said it's a good suggestion and he'd like the
committee to take time to mull the question and work with the
sponsor. He held HB 286 in committee with Amendment 1, 25-
LS1169\A.1, pending.
There being no further business to come before the committee,
Chair French adjourned the meeting at 3:02:37 PM.
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